Go Back To The Start
This is a cleaned up log, of the United Kingdom UFO Network Saturday 9th May 1998 IRC meeting on #UFO with guest John Capenter. John kindly gave up an hour of his spare time to answer some questions for the regular members of the channel, below you will find a list of questions that John was asked along with his replies. The name in between the <>'s e.g.<Nesssus> is the nick name of the IRC user asking the question and where you see <JSC> is of course the start of John's reply.
CREDITS:
Session Start: May 09 21:58:39 1998*** Now talking in #ufo
*** JSC (JSC[200-7-85.ipt.aol.com) has joined #ufo
<JSC> My computer just threatened me! Says I did something illegal! I didn't
<Crow-> OK then folks we better start we dont want John to hang about all night I'm sure hes busy.
<Crow-> We are now going to go into moderated mode #ufo2 is open for debate.
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<Rainey> Hello one and all and welcome to channel #ufo. I would like to give John a warm welcome and thank him for joining us tonight. Could I please remind everyone to /msg me or crow with your questions and not John. Here is a brief introduction:
<Rainey> John S. Carpenter earned a Bachelor of Arts in Psychology as well as a Masters in Social Work in the 1970's. He has been trained in Clinical Hypnosis at the Menninger Clinic in Kansas. He has been providing therapy for a wide variety of psychiatric disorders and marital & family problems for 19 years. He began studying UFOs at age 8 and officially began investigations. 10 years ago. He has received over 120 cases of alleged UFO abductions and performed hypnotherapy sessions to gather data. He lectures nationwide and overseas, describing incredible patterns of similarity among the data. He has appeared on TV and in documentaries as well as on radio and in magazines worldwide. He presented six papers at the prestigious M.I.T. conference in 1992. He writes an international column for the MUFON Journal and has been MUFON's Director of Abduction Research for the past 7 years.
<Rainey> John have you got anything you would like to add to that or are you ready for the first question? When you have finished answering a question could you type JC, to let me know you are ready for the next one, thanks :)
<JSC> Ok, let's go, folks!
<Crow-> Hi john, Going back to the Varginha Case do you have any new thoughts on that case now some time has passed and things have cooled down?
<JSC> I still believe it is a wonderful case. Although new data has not really come forth, nothing has really surfaced either to demonstrate that it is any kind of a hoax. Antime you have over 40 independent witnesses identifying the same exact VERY STRANGE being, it has to mean something. JSC
<Nesssus> As an regression therapist/ufologist, what do you make of Budd Hopkins case "The Brooklyn Bridge Abduction" with *Linda Cortile*
<Crow-> #UFO2 is open for unmoderated discussion. please /msg Crow- or Raine with your questions for John.
<JSC> Well, I know Budd very well and have also met Linda several times. It is an incredible story with much documentation and will stand as an excellent case for years to come. For many it may be too much to swallow, but I think Budd has done a very careful and intelligent investigation with ample verification in various ways. JSC
<Dave_UFO> Welcome to the channel John. How accurate do you think hypnotism is & how 'safe' is it?
<JSC> This is a great question. Hypnosis is only as good as the person using it because some are very pushy, asking leading questions, and making strong suggestions which could sway the data. However, I deliberately ask leading questions in an investigative manner toward LOGICAL answers and actually away from the more bizarre abduction data. Interestingly, all subjects stick to their accounts and KNOW what they have felt, seen, and believed. I will stop there but will gladly answer more specific questions on hypnosis at any time. JSC
<Benat2> John thanks for coming, my question is: When you 'regress' people, do you make then sign a liability form of any sort?
<JSC> MUFON has looked into this as a research organization and various researchers have used different statements. I never made anybody sign anything but was always very careful and clear about what we were doing, what was expected, etc. JSC
<Rainey> <Bookfndr> could you tell us a little of the background of the face in the window story?
<JSC> I have a case in RURAL Missouri in which an anomalous image floats up into the view of a picture window -- out in the middle of NOWHERE on a February COLD night in 1992. Nobody actually saw the "face" at the time but a video camera -- which was being handled quite unprofessionally just happened to catch it when nobody was looking. The face floats eerily into view and then away just 3 seconds later. A "killer Rotweiler was guarding the yard; neighbboring dogs were barking wildly. No footprints. 4 days later, an orange sphere was sighted at dawn in the west over their pasture. This family wanted NO PUBLICITY and sat on the video clip for 3 months before a relative insisted they release it to someone in authority. The FBI and Air Force laughed. I was the third one they called. It stills give me a chill when I watch it. It was shown on "Strange Universe" last year. JSC
<SickBoy> Hi John. Assuming that a patient hasn't physically been abducted, but suspects that they have. Also their life might be in a mess as well. Do you think that it's beneficial for their mental health if they falsely remember an abduction, if this false memory gives them something to blame for their turmoil?
<JSC> Good question... First of all, this has not really happened. Uh The abduction scenario beyond what is shown on TV is quite bizarre with many unpublished details. We would have a pretty good idea if it was confabulated. People may not realize how many details are collected. People would not typically lean toward such a bizaare "explanation" for their problems but I know that some may try to. What they find is that people don't believe the abduction scenario either!!!!! JSC
<TopGun__> what do you think of Richard Boylans work as a regression therapist?
<JSC> Ooooh......tricky to answer! Let's see, how can I say this... I feel that he slants the data toward his beliefs, feeling that aliens are wonderful and spiritual -- and that humans are more treacherous, including many governmental conspiracies. If he is right, fine. JSC
<Nesssus> John do you think that the Betty and Barney Hill was the first abduction case?
<JSC> No. We know that it is not. All of the major researchers have at least one case prior to 1961. I have one from the fifties. Budd Hopkins and Dave Jacobs have some from the 1940's and 1930's. We have strong suggestion that abductions occurred throughout past centuries also... JSC
<Ros> Can you ask him. what background info does he gather on his clients before he does a session. IE has he a check list of questions he asks first? Does he show them a list of pictures of aliens? (reason being that is what happened to me)
<JSC> I send out a screening form which is a combination of an investigative UFO form and a psychiatric social history Asked are questions about sightings, landings, beings, marks, etc (obvious) as well as what movies, books, hobbbies, beliefs the person has what they want, what they expect, what they need, feel, hope for, etc lots of stuff. About 50% never return the form or follow through. Those that do are usually more serious, plus I know a great deal about them before I ever meet them face to face. JSC
<Ros> could you send me one of those forms?
<JSC> YES, we can figure that out. JSC
<Ian> I would like to ask John what is happening with MUFON - not only in the USA but the UK
<JSC> I cannot tell you anything about MUFON in the UK because I don't know. In the USA MUFON is trying to improve their Journal, report more cases, and attempt to bring quality people in -- which they have! JSC
<Crow-> John what case do you think is the most credible of all ufo cases and why?
<JSC> That is hard because there are MANY for all different reasons. In regards to abductions, Budd's two books, INTRUDERS and WITNESSED are excellent cases. Also, the Kelly Cahill case in Australia is great because it involved three simultaneously in a "parallel abduction!" This case also had matching physical marks on all the bodies (people had never met) and ground traces plus a magnetic anomaly recorded in the field with a magnetometer!! JSC
<Nesssus> John do you think that some people have not been abducted even though they are convinved they are, and visa versa?
<JSC> YES. JSC
<SickBoy> As a psychologist who knows quite a bit about ways in which people delude themselves, have you ever thought that you might be doing it to yourself? What convinced you that you weren't?
<JSC> I see myself as a data collector with no firm belief or slant to the whole phenomena. continuing..... (thinking)...
<JSC> People who delude themselves do not do so in such a matching and bizarre manner down to the tiniest of details. It is the correlating pattern of matching data over thousands of cases that is so impressive. Any one that I know who looks at all of this is similarly IMPRESSED not deluded. JSC
<Rainey> <Ros> Do you practice any one technique of hypnosis, or different ones?
<JSC> Regarding hypnotic techniques, I individualize every session based on the personality and comfort level of each subject. Some require much more trust and relaxation; others are angry and eager to find out whatever they can. So I utilize various techniques, always tuning into that individual uniquely. JSC
<Bookfndr> John, we keep hearing of these unpublished details of abductions that are compared among researchers. Are we ever going to see some of them in print?
<JSC> A great idea. Get the researchers to get together and do so unselfishly Unfortunately... the best book so far to give an all-around, well involved participation would be ALIEN DISCUSSIONS, the proceedings of the 1992 M.I.T. Abduction Study Conference in BBoston, headed by Dr. John Mack and Dr. David Pritchard. We are all represented in there! Also, Eddie Bullard has published two comparison studies (totally over 700 cases) through the Fund for UFO Research. JSC
<Nesssus> John I am presently dealing with a witness who has described particular details to me which would lead me to think in the initial that that person might have been abducted. Now know the trauma that being abducted can cause do you think I was right to let them carry on thinking that they was'nt because it helps them get on with their lives and pretend it was just some dreams? Or do you think I should have said I believe etc etc?
<JSC> Good question....... I always judge on whether to pursue an investigation or discourage one based on that person's emotional needs. The old phrase, "If it ain't broken , don't fix it" has been modified by me to read, "If nothing is knocking at your door, don't open it!" Inother words, a possible abductee will eventually beg for involvement if they really need it. If others can go on about their daily business without any difficulty, then GREAT! We must curb our curiosity and remember the NEEDS of that individual. JSC
<Rainey> <TopGun__> have you ever had cases, in which the "victims" said they were abducted, but weren't? And how did you find out, if?
<JSC> Very few people come to me stating that they were abducted. Most do not know what happened and are open to whatever we learn together. I do not know of anyone who was glad that they were abducted. Some were suspicious and curious; we learned that nothing happened via hypnosis and they were relieved. JSC
<Ros> do you actively go out looking for cases or are they sent to you?
<JSC> All cases have been sent to me, screened, then I decide if it looks "worthy." JSC
<Janitor> Do you have any personal theory about the agenda of non human intelligences?
<JSC> Regarding the GRAY types, it is obvious that they are engaged in a hybridization program AMONG OTHER THINGS. I do not believe -- as in David Jacob's book THE THREAT that an imminent "take-over" is at hand. In fact, I believe that visitations have been occurring since the beginning of our history ---infact, they may have put us here! The connection with angels is not so crazy. However, I am confused still as to "who's in charge." JSC
<Rainey> <mulder> John are you aware of the recent mind control experiments in austria, which were formerly conducted by SS officers, but now by NSA
<JSC> Yes -- heard of them......and? JSC
<SickBoy> Susan Blackmore has said that out of body experiences in many people are so similar because people have similar brains. She has also hinted that this might explain the similarities in abduction experiences. What do you think?
<JSC> Don't think it explains ANYTHING. JSC
<Rimmer> Do you think the US Government is able to make "Ufo's" ? And if so do you think they can make them look like something people would identify as an Ufo ?
<JSC> YES...today......but not back in the 30's, 40's, 50's, or even 60's... when thousands of high speed, erractically maneuvering crafts were seen. JSC
<Ros> what is the general feeling in UFO circles at the moment re regression?
<JSC> UFO researchers have tried to learn the "careful language" of hypnosis, perhaps utilizing deliberate wrong suggestions as a means of testing the subject's suggestibility or desire to please the therapist. Regression is being used carelessly by some and artistically well by others. JSC
<I-Knight> John, what is your opinion on the Willam J Hermann abductions investigated/written about by Wendelle Stevens?
<JSC> Very interesting! I have the video on the case and was impressed. Any specific questions about that case? JSC
<SickBoy> The British Medical Association recently stated that they think that regression techniques are dangerous as there is no way of telling the difference between memory and fantasy. How come you think differently, shouldn't you err on the side of caution and stop using it?
<JSC> I should mention a very important aspect of my research that helps ME with that very question. Multiple participant cases are ones (like Betty & Barney Hill) in which two or more persons are simultaneously abducted. In these cases, the validity of hypnosis is directly challenged as both are separately being interviewed, "tricked", misled on purpose, challenged on tiny details, and yet....they produce incredibly alike accounts with details matching that NEITHER could have known about because of confidential aspects or never having been published. It is especially great when they are able to recall seeing each other aboard the craft and accurately recall what either was doing at any given moment in time. This is well beyond chance or fantasy or false memory. They are amazed themselves yet it confirms in a correlational manner that something indeed happened. JSC
<Rainey> <moonhead> hi john,what do you think the aliens are trying to achieve by carrying out these abductions?
<JSC> 1. Hybridization 2) Planetary awareness 3) guidance... 4) emotional testing and 5) spiritual growth. JSC
<Dave_UFO> Every investigator gets asked the same question. Sorry John you are going to get it also. Do you see an end to all this secrecy in any way. If so what time line would you say?
<JSC> I think what will force the issue and unravel the secrecy... will be the continued improved collection of great cases and terrific video, as well as indisputable mass sightings. JSC
<sickboy> John it is clear that the Hills saw the planet jupiter and not a UFO! Betty was having dreams and discussed them with her husband so it's not surprising that when they went to a regressionist 6 months later that Barney's 'memories' were identical. Also do you believe that Betty remembered the star chart from a single glimpse?
<JSC> THey did not see the planet Jupiter because their object was seen and tracked on radar -- something you cannot do with the planet Jupiter. She suffered two years of unsettling dreams, etc. You need to check your facts on this case. Their memories were quite emotional and traumatic, if you had heard these tapes, and hardly the causation of her telling him her dreams. It also is significant that all of their data also matches cases from today who had never heard of Betty and Barney Hill. JSC
I-Knight> re : William Hermann.... do you think these were the same aliens that were involved in the Roswell Crash as suggested by Stevens?
<JSC> Not necessarily. They seem to be grays. I don't know of any connection, really, with Roswell. JSC
<Ros> have you ever come across anyone who has had ccontact with maybe interdimensionals as well as possible et's. not at the same time? if not what do you think of that.
<JSC> As far as I know, all ETs may be interdimensional. I don't know else to answer that. JSC
<Ros> another question. How do you deal with a case that happened many years ago have you dealt with many cases of reccuring visitation or other experiences, ongoing cases in other words. If so, how are you handling them?
<JSC> Okay. When it comes to recovering emotional material from years ago, it is as fresh as if it happened yesterday. I have had cases in which ongoing visitations were occuring and we could do nothing to interfere, simply record the data. JSC
<UFO-conta> What do you mean by "Planetary awareness"? Do you mean that they want us to get concious of that we are not alone?
<JSC> No. Environmental awareness vs. how to make a new weapon, kindness to animals and helping preserve their species and kindness and more understanding for our fellow man. JSC
<Tinman-BF> John, do you look at the abductions of animals as being the same reason as for the abductions of humans
<JSC> No. For example, cattle are clearly mutilated. Humans are treated more like children in a doctor's office, and politely returned home. Animals cannot exactly report their experiences, either!!! JSC
<pathFINDR> whats the most startling pattern you have discoverd through hypnotic regression and the modern abduction phenomena?
<JSC> Communication has been telepathic in 99% of cases worldwide. This is an incredibly high statistic when one considers all the possible variations that fantasy, hoaxing, and confabulation could create. That is just one example. JSC
<Rimmer> Why do you think it is that there is far more ufo activity, ufo sightings etc in the USA then here in Europe (Holland)
<JSC> There isn't more in the USA...just more people willing to report them. We find that when we put a researcher anywhere in the world and that country is willing to report such bizzare accounts, that we get all the same kinds of data. JSC
<Crow-> Hi John, What do you think of Derrel Simms implants do you think hes really onto something there or not?
<JSC> I just talked with Dr. Roger Leihr, who performed the surgeries on most of Mr. Simms' cases, and he reported that approximately 7 of the implants were exactly alike, even though they were from completely independent cases. More information and study will continue to come forth on these new developments. JSC
<Rainey> John, what did you think of Bill Hermann's regression therapist and do you use similar techniques when someone gets distressed?
<JSC> I forget what they did exactly. JSC
<Rainey> John she told Bill he was just watching a TV screen
<JSC> Okay. Yes, I use a disassociative method to reduce the intensity of direct encountering, removing it to a safer distance. For example, when someone has difficulty looking directly at an alien, I may have them place black curtains in front and stick a Polaroid camera through the crack in the curtains to capture the image safely, without direct visual contact. That works extremely well. JSC
<Crow-> #UFO2 is open for unmoderated discussion. please /msg Crow- or Raine with your questions for John.
<Rainey> <UFO-conta> Have you handled cases where abductees are returned to "the wrong place" as i e on a road or on a field somewhere? Why do you think they are not returned to the right place. As in these cases?
<JSC> Yes. I have had this happen many times. Call it stupidity (grin). It also provides a humorous form of evidence, esp. when people are outside of locked homes, or on the top of a cliff in their car with no tracks leading there. Ha ha. JSC
<Ros> have you dealt with many cases of reccuring visitation or other experiences, ongoing cases inother words. If so, how are you handling them?
<JSC> We can't stop them, so we just offer our best support and data collection, sometimes attempting to record on video tape or voice activated audio tape at night. No "smoking gun" results. JSC
<Crow-> John, do you compare adbuction notes with any particular researchers on a regular basis?
<JSC> Yes. Bud Hopkins. David Jacobs. John Mack. Joe Lewels. Yvonne Smith. Linda Howe. and others. JSC
<Gandalf1> John... have you ever heard of someone who got "free" from abductions? as it seems to me that once you are an abductee you never get "out" again
<JSC> Many women have their abductions end with the onset of menopause. The typical ages for either male or female are most frequent between 12 and 45. JSC
<Crow-> John, I know you and Linda Howe are good friends. Has she shared any recent animal mutilations of great interest with you?
<JSC> I have not heard from her specifically. You can catch her on Art Bell's radio show nearly all the time. I have heard about recent cattle mutilations from Colorado, from investigators there. The same weird stuff occurring. JSC
<Ros> would he be willing to take on a case that whilst has been investigated by many diferent ufo groups, hasn't realy been investigated correctly as far as the experiencer is concerned.
<JSC> You may e-mail any such potential case to me at StarmanJC@aol.com. JSC
<Nesssus> Apart from Budd, David and John M. who do you consider to be experts in the abduction field?
<JSC> There are some good researchers in other countries: Tony Dodd in England, Hilda Musch in Holland, Glennys Mackay in Australia, Keith Basterfield in Austrailia, to name a few. JSC
<Rainey> <Ros> How does he deal with experiences involving missing time?
<JSC> First of all, I have them write a written narrative of all the possible conscious details that they can recall. Secondly, I will interview them and again ask them to recall all of their conscious recollections, then if their story still remains consistent and void of obvious explanation, I will use hypnosis to take them to the point of amnesia, using every possible sensory input and see if I can help them recall the very next detail of any kind, esp. involving all the senses because sometimes they remember a sound or a smell when the visual elements are too terrifying to recall. This works well, and once the amnesia is broken, they can flow fairly easily as they build on each remembered detail as it comes. It would be like talking with someone and something triggers a recollection of a dream from the night before, which one had completely forgotten until somebody triggers the subconscious with a key word or visual cue. JSC
<Crow-> John you have been typing none stop for quite some time, would you like quick break?
<JSC> Hi. This is John's better half typing now... (he he) I'm doing okay... how about you guys? BUT John is answering the questions, of course!
<Crow-> shall we carry on then we have more questions.
<JSC> I'm just typing at low pay. ha
<Crow-> haha ok here we go :)
<Bookfndr> John, at what point are you in your research career at the monemt? Are you turning any corners, or just going as usual?
<JSC> Going as usual, and communicating more toward national projects in conjunction with other researchers, such as Bud Hopkins. JSC
<Ros> He answered earlier about ufo's being interdimensional. With that in mind, has he come across anyone who has had to deal with two seperate individual visitations before. Maybe one ongoing and another a recent grey type encounter.
<Crow-> #UFO2 is open for unmoderated discussion. please /msg Crow- or Raine with your questions for John.
<JSC> I have had cases in which two or more types of beings have encountered the individual. They had many alien types on their dance card. JSC
<Ros> please apologise for so many questions but for me this is VERY personal and thanks for helping
<JSC> You are most welcome.
<SickBoy> Why do you think that most psychologists believe that abductions are all in the mind?
<JSC> Simply because they have not studied or experienced the investigations of alleged abductions. Most who do are very impressed, but unsure of what to do next. I see myself as a data collector toward providing information which may help to solve this mystery. The process of investigation is therapeutic quite often, but I rarely provide any form of ongoing therapy. I will refer them to support groups or support persons and that is extremely beneficial.JSC
<Rainey> <pathFINDR> Do you or your colleagues believe that the celtic faerie faith has direct counterpart with the modern phenomena?
<SickBoy> Science doesn't work like that. I believe in evolution even though I haven't studied it. Why is this different?
<JSC> Yes. I have studied fairy folklore fairly closely and found cases of abduction by fairies to be extremely similar, even with the accompaniment of balls of light, which were called fairy lights, and the hybridization that occurred which produced "changelings." Much more on that in my video, "Centuries of Contact." JSC
<Ros> How far back has he traced cases, is there a link between the case and a family history of it? What about future generations from then on?
<JSC> We have traced back at least four generations in a number of cases across all the researchers. It seems clear that when someone is involved with abductions that family members from every generation prior and afterward are involved. This is a highly correlated statistic, and impressive in that it shows that they have an interest in a particular genetic line, and may be studying us in a proper longitudinal study. JSC
<Nesssus> what advice would you give to someone who thinks that they might have been abducted?
<JSC> Write to me at StarmanJC@aol.com. JSC
<Crow-> Going back to the Varginha case what do you think happened to these creatures that were captured by the military and does anybody know how these creatures got to be found out alone with no spacecraft, does this mean they were not aliens.
<JSC> First of all, there was a spacecraft sighted, and reports of a retrieval operation after it crash landed. I am sure the military studied the live and dead ones as military people would---not like scientists would. Hopefully there are decent scientists involved. I would hate to think that they just cut them up and looked inside their bodies. JSC
<Rainey> <Ros> has he ever experienced any paranormal TYPE forces at work before, during or after a session?
<JSC> My life has been paranormal (laughing) for a long time. But to answer your question, no.
<Rainey> John, now that you have been more or less researching professionally for a number of years, have you changed your mind about anything or formualted any "hard and fast" opinions that you did not have before?
<JSC> Good question.... thinking..... I am just more certain--more than EVER, that this is a very real and eventually verifiable phenomenon that is well beyond fantasy, false memories, sleep paralyisis, hoaxing, psychiatric disorder, etc. I am very impressed with the mountain of credible evidence and wonderful normal persons who have found themselves unwillingly involved in these matters. The more I learned, the more I am convinced that these matters are real, but not to be feared or worried about. Sometimes I feel like we are the ants in the ant farm who looked up and suddently realized, despite their creation, that they are "not alone." Thank you all for this wonderful evening of intelligent questions and you can write to me at any time at StarmanJC@aol.com Thank you again. JSC
<Crow-> John and Wife can we say a big thank you for joining us to night it's been a pleasure.
<Rainey> Thank you very much for joining us tonight John it was a very interesting evening :)
<JSC> Thanks, Crow and Rainey!!! You guys are great!!! Very well
<Rainey> We will unmoderate the channel so everyone can thank you too!!
<JSC> organized and smoothly run. Three cheers for this group!JSC
<Rainey> thank you!!!
<Crow-> thanks
<JSC> You are sincerely welcome.
<Benat2> Thanks for coming
<JSC> You are welcome, Benat2
*** K9 sets mode: -m
<RackEm98> Hey John Made it but late!!! hehe thanks: RackEm98
<Crow-> please fell free to drop by at anytime you may be passing a computer.
<Dave_UFO> Many thanks for taking the time & trouble to visit us John.
<Gandalf1> thanx a lot john for making some time available for us and a BIG hooray for crow and rainey for moderating it :) its been great
<sojourner> excellent typist!
<Benat2> HORRAY!HOORAY!HOORAY
<JSC> sojourner...hey, thanks... (grin)
<sojourner> three cheers for the typist
<Espe> many thanks, john
<JSC> I am a lot faster than John
<JSC> hehehehehe
<Benat2> well your only flaw is that you have AOL
* Benat2 jumps to a corner of the room so all the AOL'rs dont crucify him
<JSC> Benat... hmmmmmmm
<JSC> LOL Benat2.... Everyone should get MCI's Internet!!!!
<Ros> Thanks JSC. You won't believe how much you have helped me tonight
<Ros> sorry for all the questions
<Crow-> thank you too also typist you did a really great job :)
<sojourner> very good answers jsc!
<SickBoy> thanks for coming john
<JSC> Ros, any time.
<Rainey> John please feel free to join us again anytime, it was great!!
<JSC> Wow. Typist never received so many nice compliments. (blush)
<sojourner> typist RAWKS!!
<JSC> Now that I know how to get here, I will drop in occasionally. JSC
<Benat2> you sound like my english teacher; she calls her husband the lunch packer because he makes her lunch:)
<sojourner> coolazoid!
<Bookfndr> yes, do come back regularly John
<Gandalf1> great !:)
<pathFINDR> thx jsc ..take care
<JSC> Thanks, Chuck
<comet7> me..knock it off too
<Benat2> ya, drop in whenever you wish
<JSC> Goodbye to everyone...God Bless!
<Aleena> Very informative.. thank you. :)
<Ros> John if you are interested my case is on my web site. a fairly good interview is there in the "about section"
<Bookfndr> nite
<comet7> bye JSC
<Benat2> www.pufori.org
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Session Close: May 10 01:57 1998