NATIONAL CAVING ASSOCIATION

Minutes of Committee Meeting of 9^th January 1999, at The

Red Lion Inn, Alvechurch - starting at 10.30 a.m.

Those Present: - 
M.C. Day Chairman (MCD)
A.R. Wood Secretary/Acting Treasurer (ARW)
R. Mehew Treasurer (RM)
A. Butcher Training Officer (AB)
N. Williams Equipment Officer (NW)
J. Dobson Legal & Insurance Officer (JD)
F.S. Baguley CCC Rep./Trustee (FSB)
J.E. Potts Editor/DCA Rep./Trustee (JEP)
G. Price Conservation Officer (GP)
O. Clarke Rope Test Officer
G. Jones CNCC Rep. (GJ)
G. Mullan CSCC Rep. (GM)
L. Sykes LUG Rep. (LS)
C. Gardener BCRA (CG)
S. Harding NAMHO (SH)
E. Little CCC C&A Officer (informal attendance) (EL)
(Initials after position refer to references in Minutes)

1. CHAIRMAN’S WELCOME & ADDRESS

MCD opened the meeting at 10.35 a.m., welcoming RM as co-opted Treasurer until confirmed at the AGM.

NOTE

2. APOLOGIES FOR ABSENCE

Clark Friend, Bob Cawthorne

NOTE

3. ACCURACY OF MINUTES OF 10^h OCTOBER 1998

Together with the correction note circulated with the Minutes, the Minutes of 10^th October 1998 were accepted as a true record of the Meeting.

COMPLETE

4. MATTERS ARISING FROM MINUTES OF 10^th OCTOBER 1998

97/86 CCPR OS Representative

Wookey had had papers stolen with car – MCD would check to see if vehicle and papers had been subsequently recovered

ACTION MCD

98/05 Ghar Parau Foundation

MCD had been in contact with our Auditor regarding this matter. It was suggested that GPF be instructed to allocate this outstanding sum (£500) to Expeditions during the current year, and if there were any balance remaining then this be transferred to GPF capital. This was agreed by Council. NW asked what Council wished to do about representation at the February GPF Meeting now that it was likely that UKSC funds would be available for allocation. NW was a member of the GPF Committee and could represent NCA although formally the NCA Treasurer was nominated to attend. RM indicated that he would try to attend the Meeting.

ACTION – RM TO ATTEND GPF MEETING

98/07 Storage of Documentation

Historical papers (Pre 90’s Minutes etc) were now ready to be transferred to BCRA Library. ARW would bring these to AGM for onward transmission to Roy Poulson.

ACTION - AW AS INDICATED

98/12 Training Assessment Fees

Training Assessment Fees had now been increased as previously agreed.

COMPLETE

98/13 Manual of Operations

Virtually all of the existing Manual had now been transposed to a single format (Word 7). The next stage was to update the existing information where required and ARW would continue progressing this after the AGM.

ACTION – ARW AS INDICATED

98/14 UK Cave Conservation & Emergency Fund

CCC had nominated EL and this had been passed to BCRA as previously agreed. BCRA had acknowledged and accepted both nominations.

COMPLETE

98/38 "So you want to go Caving" Publication

This Publication had now been printed and copies were available at the Meeting. In response to a query GP advised that the photo on the front of the leaflet was from Ogof Craig-a-Ffynnon also this information was not printed in the leaflet. JEP indicated that she would circulate copies of the "Insert" which could then be copied for inclusion in the leaflets.

COMPLETE

98/47 Current Position

ARW had still to liaise with TF regarding Photocopy costs.

ACTION – ARW/TF RE PHOTOCOPY COSTS.

98/62 Legal Aspects Leaflet

JD continued to review additional requirements for an update to this publication. GM indicated that there was a change in Right to Roam Legislation and this would have implications for any update.

ONGOING

98/63 Position of Treasurer

MCD had confirmed co-option with Bob Mehew.

COMPLETE

98/64 Sports Council’s matters.

ONGOING REPORT – DROP TO CHAIRMAN’S REPORT

98/65 CCPR Matters

ONGOING REPORT – DROP TO CHAIRMAN’S REPORT

98/69 Current Financial Position

Transfer of £2000 had now been made from Training Account to No. 1 Account.

COMPLETE

98/70 Subscriptions

ONGOING REPORT – DROP TO CHAIRMAN’S REPORT

98/72 UK Cave Conservation Plans

GP advised that an attempt was being made to progress the outstanding plans.

ACTION GP – REPORT ON PROGRESS MADE

98/73 Devonshire Mine Incident

AB advised that the Training Co-ordinator had produced a report on the incident and a separate report to NCA Council had been prepared and circulated by AB. (If you have not received a copy of this and require one let me know - ARW). A letter had also been produced in draft to be sent to the Dukes Barn Centre for comment and/or amendment by this Meeting. AB noted that this was the first time NCA had been faced with having to resolve such a situation. NW felt that the letter should have a summary with a number of bullet points to be acted on. AB felt that we were in a difficult situation in this regard as NCA does not validate centres but individuals, and does not have any direct form of control over the centres. In the letter we were simply commenting on what occurred and the reasons for it. NW still felt that the letter could more clearly note the issues that we were not happy about and that the a copy of the letter also be sent to the Regulatory/Licensing Authorities so if an incident happened in future with more serious consequences and no action had been taken by those Authorities it could be noted that NCA had highlighted them the dangers. NW also felt that some liaison with BMC might be in order to obtain some consensus on what the relative qualifications (LCLMA, SPA) actually covered. Also it would be useful to find out whether the BMC had had similar difficulties. JEP advised that she had received reports that the instructor involved in the incident was still taking pupils on vertical caving trips. RB felt that it should be indicated in the letter to Dukes Barn Centre that a copy of the letter was being forwarded to the Licensing Authority who should also be informed that we believe that the incident arose due to the requirements laid down. GM felt that the letter to Dukes Barn ought to include reference to the "Assistant Leader" who was on work experience and was aged 17 – this was not acceptable. The requirements for an assistant leader was that on a trip of this type they should be capable of extracting the party from the cave or mine safely in the event of the leader becoming injured or incapacitated. AB agreed to amend the letter to make reference to this and circulate for final comment before sending out. It was agreed that this was acceptable to the Meeting. GM queried the phrase in the letter "Whilst it was agreed that no action would be taken against either the party leader or the technical advisor" asking what action could be available. AB replied that removal of the qualification was the sanction available through the advice of the Local Panel. The final decision on removal would be made through the National Panel. Any appeal would be made through the Training Officer to National Council. Comment was made on the Training Officer’s Report of the incident that referred to the reported actions of the landowner and her dogs. It was felt that this was hearsay and inappropriate. AB advised that the next Training Committee Meeting would probably be in April by which time a response from the Licensing Authority should be to hand. (See also Training Officers Report)

ACTION – AB AMEND AND CIRCULATE DUKES BARN LETTER BEFORE SENDING

98/74 Paving damage at BCRA Conference

ARW advised that a bill for the paving damage at the BCRA Conference of £50.41 had been received and paid. The Rope Testing Rig had been set up on an area of paving which was only designed for pedestrian traffic and when subjected to the weight of the Rig damage occurred – it was understood that advice had been given to OC that the siting of the Rig was not appropriate. NW asked OC whether he was prepared to make a donation towards the damage. OC agreed that he would make a contribution of £25 towards the cost. CG felt that BCRA should bear some of the cost and he would raise that with them.

COMPLETE

98/75 Fixed Aids Policy

GM queried whether when the draft of the Policy on Fixed Aids was ready it would be brought to Council. NW confirmed this stating that a first draft had been prepared which would be discussed at the Equipment Meeting in November – from this a draft should be prepared and hopefully ready for submission to next Council Meeting in January.

ACTION NW – DRAFT POLICY TO BE CIRCULATED TO COUNCIL WHEN PREPARED

98/80 Job requirements of post

MCD had liased with PM and prepared a draft "Terms of Reference" for the Legal & Insurance Officer post. JD was considering this before making specific comment.

ONGOING

5. AGM PREPARATIONS

99/01 AGM Agenda

ARW had prepared a Draft Agenda for the AGM, which in most respects followed the format of the previous year. Of the posts due for election at the AGM a Nomination Form had been received for RM to stand as Treasurer. No nominations had been received for either Equipment Officer or Publications & Information Officer. Two additional items had been included in the Agenda for consideration at this Meeting.

The first resolved an issue raised by RM that the previous AGM Minutes did not clearly state the level or process by which Subscriptions had been set. To this end a specific Agenda Item had been included with a suggested proposal for inclusion – "That the agreement of the June 1997 Structure Meeting be ratified and that subscriptions remain at £40 for Constituent Bodies and £10 for individual clubs". The Meeting raised no query regarding this.

The following additional item was to show that real and visible progress was being made in respect of an Equal opportunities Policy. The proposal included as an item in the Draft Agenda was for a Policy Statement to the effect that "The NCA will make its services available to all sections of the sporting community, and there will be no discrimination on grounds of race, creed, colour, occupation, religion or political opinion. Equal opportunities will be provided to persons of either sex, except where the NCA represents participants of only one gender". This statement was taken from the UKSC Grant Acceptance and by accepting the 1999 Grant Offer, NCA would in effect be accepting the statement as policy by default. Accepting the statement as a formal Policy might also be of assistance to Member Clubs who if required (by grant making bodies, for instance) could confirm their own adherence to an Equal Opportunities Policy as being by subscription to that of NCA by virtue of being a Member. Once this initial statement had been accepted, then NCA could of course develop or modify the statement or procedures according to need. FSB felt that the last sentence of the statement seemed to contradict the rest of the statement. MCD noted that this was included as an acknowledgement that in certain sports there could be grounds for single gender participation in, for instance a specific event. After further discussion it was felt that whilst it was believed that there were no situations in caving where this apparent relaxation of the principal statement would apply, as gender was not an issue in any matter relating to caving the statement should be presented as stated.

MCD felt that there was a need to consider whether the proposals for Constitutional Amendment, which were tabled and rejected in 1998, should be resubmitted. GM advised that CSCC had submitted a proposal for consideration either at this Meeting or the AGM, which had a bearing on this matter. The CSCC proposal was "It is proposed that clubs which do not pay a subscription will not have a vote at the 1999 AGM and the subsequent postal ballot". This was put forward on the basis of "No Taxation – No Representation". MCD believed that if this were discussed at the 1999 AGM then it would need to be ratified by ballot of all clubs under existing arrangements. GM did not believe this to be the case – the Constitution stated that a subscription should be levied from members and the Structure Meeting in June 1997 decided that a subscription would be levied on individual clubs, in addition to constituent bodies – it did not however decide what would happen to those clubs who did not pay a subscription. MCD felt that the Constitution defined clubs as members by virtue of being members of a constituent body and until the Constitution was changed this would remain the case, whether or not those clubs decided to pay their subscription. GM stated that those clubs that did not wish to be members of NCA could not be obliged to be members by inference or affiliation. AB felt that it was possible to interpret the relevant clause in the Constitution " Constitutionally established caving clubs who are affiliated to or members of a Regional caving body or nationally representative specialist caving body who shall be referred to as Member Clubs" either that all clubs who were members of a constituent body were automatically members of NCA, or, that membership of a constituent body was a qualification for membership but not automatic. MCD believed that the first interpretation was the one that had been applied to date. GM stated that the 1997 Structure Meeting simply stated that a subscription be raised from member clubs – it did not indicate that the subscription should be optional. It stated in the Minutes of that Meeting "4a) There was general agreement that club membership of NCA could not be made compulsory, but that clubs must be able to opt out". There seemed to be a concern that any attempt at "disenfranchisement" would be challenged by one of the clubs affected, however if no action was taken then the challenge could equally come from a club who had paid on the basis that the definition of membership as interpreted by MCD was too wide. AB in addition felt that if this interpretation were adopted then there would be a number of clubs who might expect back the subscription they had paid. We would have reached a position of hiatus where any attempt to change or clarify the Constitution would be defeated as in the past. CG felt that if it was accepted that all clubs were members then some form of tiered membership would be required with the benefits such as representation defined between those clubs who did or did not pay. GM indicated that if the CSCC proposal was not given proper regard then it was quite likely that CSCC clubs would not pay an NCA subscription in 1999 as CSCC member clubs were tired of changes that had their backing being defeated by clubs who were not paying a subscription. GM advised that where a question of interpretation of constitution was challenged in court then the principles of common law and specifically that of consideration given for services or benefits received apply (i.e. without a subscription (the consideration) being paid there would be no legal contractual relationship between the NCA and clubs), also, it was difficult to imagine that anyone would pay to mount a challenge in respect of the requirement to pay a £10 subscription which it is likely that a court would throw out for that reason. MCD made the point that the Constitutional Amendments had been defeated as a result of so few clubs exercising their right to vote and if this right had been taken up then it is almost certain that the amendments would have passed. JEP advised that DCA similarly had a motion, which they wished to bring to the attention of the NCA Council, namely – "It is accepted that some clubs wish to be members of NCA only through their constituent bodies and are not prepared to pay a club subscription to NCA. NCA should continue, as far as it is able, to represent the interests of these clubs as expressed by the constituent bodies. DCA considers, however that those clubs which do not wish to pay a subscription to NCA should not receive direct benefits from NCA and that NCA should not incur any expenditure directly in respect of these clubs. Such benefits and expenditure should probably include the right to vote at an NCA AGM or in an NCA ballot, direct posting of NCA material to the club, grant aid to the club, support in obtaining grant aid, etc. It should be for individual constituent bodies to decide for themselves which of their benefits they wish to share with other fully-paid-up club members of NCA, which they wish to share with all members of NCA constituent bodies and which they wish to reserve for their own paid up members". MCD summarised the discussion so far – whilst in principal there was no dissent to the direction that needed to be taken regarding the separation of benefits from those who did and did not wish to pay an NCA subscription, however there was some difference of opinion regarding the mechanism by which this should be achieved (i.e. whether or not this needed to be pursued via constitutional amendment). MCD felt that whatever route was taken at the AGM, constitutional amendments would be required at some stage. MCD acknowledged that his interpretation of the Constitution could be overruled by the AGM and the CSCC proposal passed. GJ noted that he was against any two-tiered membership system and if change was to come about then it should be on the basis that clubs either were or were not members of NCA. GM felt that trying to resolve the situation by constitutional change was almost fatally hampered by the cumbersome method by which it needed to be carried out. AB stated that with regard to the CSCC proposal there were two ways forward – either this Meeting could pass (or reject) the proposal by formal vote, or it could be put as an early item in the AGM Agenda. AB also felt that this Meeting should agree that no Constitutional Amendments should be put to the AGM, but that a Structure Meeting be called with the object of sorting out the constitution once and for all. With regard to the AGM, GJ felt that the position had to be made clear before that Meeting on whether clubs who had not paid were permitted to vote or not as this could affect attendance. GM said that this should appear in the Agenda and so there should be no apprehension as to what might happen at the AGM. GJ replied that, that being the case he was happy that the terms of the CSCC motion be possibly applied to the AGM itself (as a term of procedure for that Meeting) but not to any subsequent ballots as this would require Constitutional Change. JEP felt that a Special General Meeting could be called later this year as part of the process of bringing in any required constitutional changes. AB also felt that in conjunction with any constitutional changes envisaged it would be prudent to consider with the benefit of hindsight whether the direction taken over the past few years was the correct one as far as the wider caving community wanted. GM clarified the point that the AGM is the arbiter of the meaning of the Constitution and that this Meeting was the last date in practical terms for items to be included in the AGM Agenda. GM suggested that as a very early item in the AGM, an Agenda Item be placed stating that CSCC wished the Constitution to be interpreted in a particular way. AB further proposed that there be no Constitutional Proposals put to membership in 1999 subject to a Structure Committee Meeting being called which may or may not bring forth constitutional proposals. It was agreed that the CSCC Proposal be included as a procedural matter relating to the 1999 AGM whilst acknowledging that there would be no subsequent postal ballot. The wording of the proposal was amended slightly to "It is proposed that clubs which do not pay a subscription will not have a vote at the 1999 AGM and any subsequent postal ballot" - this was done to preclude the obligation to hold a ballot regardless. The Proposal would be inserted as Item 3. in the Agenda.

ARW noted that at the 1997 Structure Meeting it was agreed that the existing subscription levels would be set for two years and that the end of 1999 would be the end of this arrangement. It needed therefore to be decided whether the subscriptions for the year 2000 needed to be set at the 1999 AGM, as some constituent bodies would need to know the figures before the end of 1999. After discussing the various merits or otherwise of differing means to avoid setting the subscription so far in advance it was agreed that for this year the Treasurer should indicate the level of subscriptions in September/October (and agreed at October Council Meeting?) which would then need to be ratified at the AGM in March.

Closing the discussion on AGM related matters, ARW reminded everyone that Officer’s Reports, Accounts, Stock (Publications) and Asset (Equipment) lists were now required as soon as possible.

ACTION – ARW TO PREPARE FINAL AGENDA FOR AGM

ACTION – ALL AS APPROPRIATE – AGM REPORT’S AND AUDIT INFORMATION/ACCOUNTS

6. CHAIRMAN (Sports Council & CCPR)

99/02 CCPR Matters

There was a CCPR meeting taking place during the coming week. It was anticipated that the CCPR would be commenting on a new initiative between the ESC and various conservation bodies of which one point involved the setting up of a new database structure, for which the Cave Registry Database may have some implication. The CCPR continued to be involved in a restructuring process in order to answer criticisms of the way in which certain matters had been run in the past.

ONGOING REPORT

99/03 Sports Council Matters

An Offer of grant from the UKSC had been received and it was noted with appreciation that it was proposed to reinstate the Expedition Programme with a grant of £5,000, subject to negotiation. The schedule stated that the grant had been granted only for the Training Programme, Equipment Programme and Expedition Programme. £15,000 had been allocated to Training/Equipment. It was anticipated that there would be no difficulty in the previous arrangements for administering the Expedition Programme in conjunction with the Ghar Parau Foundation. It was also noted that there was a redefinition of the purpose for which some funds (to be termed Access Fees) were raised by the Training Programme (about £5,000). These would be allocated to C & A objectives without compromising the UKSC grant, the actual amount depending on the funds raised by the Training Programme from LCLMA Scheme etc. This may in turn allow some re-instatement of grants to Regional Bodies for C & A purposes. MCD stated that all things being equal (and subject to NCA fulfilling reporting etc. requirements) the grant should be renewed for each of the following three years of the Plan although changes in matters such as government policy could compromise this.

Application had also been made to the ESC and it was believed that the allocation of a grant for £4,850 was likely (but not yet confirmed). The submission contained enhanced targets/objectives largely relating to the Training Programme and it was anticipated that much closer monitoring and reporting would be required from NCA in future relating to such matters.

The formal four-year plan which formed the basis of the grant submissions would now be issued to NCA members. RM noted that in the UKSC Schedule there was a requirement to produce an operating plan for this year and subsequent years. For subsequent years the plans must be submitted by the beginning of September and this would require drafts of the various Programme annual plans prepared by the end of June starting from this year. One of the implications of this was that for significant projects a lead in period of at least a year would be required. GM felt that the enhanced reporting and planning requirements might make it easier for the NCA to demonstrate to the membership what it actually does. RM indicated that in addition to publicising the grants in SPELEOScene he would also write a short article for the wider caving press. MCD noted that as a requirement for acceptance of the grants there was a need to include reference to being supported by the various grant organisations on headed notepaper and the like. ARW would circulate a copy of the preferred wording and sample with the Minutes of this Meeting.

It was agreed that acceptance of the grants from both UKSC and ESC could be attended to by and at the discretion of MCD, acknowledging the fact that acceptance of any ESC Grant, for which the precise terms were not known, may be required before the next Council Meeting or the AGM. GM proposed a vote of thanks to MCD for the efforts involved in making these grant applications – this was wholeheartedly supported.

ACTION - ARW TO CIRCULATE COPY OF NOTEPAPER WORDING

ACTION – MCD TO SIGN GRANT ACCEPTANCES AS REQUIRED

7. SECRETARY (Correspondence Received)

99/04 General Correspondence & Info Received (Directly Caving Related)

Cambrian - N/L’s Dec 98 & Jan ’99

DCA - Minutes of Council Meeting 18^th July 1998

BCRC - Newsletter No 7 – Oct 98

CNCC - Minutes of Committee Meeting – 19^th June 1998

DCUC - Newsletters 21 & 22 – Winter 1998

Euro Hohlenrettungs Symposium – Nov 1999

INFORMATION

99/06 NCA Web Site

Amendments to the NCA Web Site now included a number of club e-mail addresses, which seemed to have attracted attention as updates from clubs were being received. Also Minutes of Council Meetings which had been accepted by Council had been placed on the Web Site. This should make the business of what actually went on in meetings more open both to clubs and individual cavers, and give less credence to the reported secrecy of the meetings. Only accepted minutes were posted to avoid any legal repercussions as a result of inaccuracy.

INFORMATION

8. TREASURER (Subscriptions (Club & C.B.) and current position)

99/05 Handover of Duties

ARW advised that he would be completing the formalities of preparing the Accounts for 1998 ready for Audit as his last duties as Acting Treasurer. The chequebooks etc would be passed over to RM at the end of this Meeting and RM would now be taking over the normal day to day treasurer duties. New Bank Mandates would be signed after the Meeting for both main (No’s 1, 2 & Deposit A/c’s) and the Training Account. Signatories on main accounts would be RM, ARW & MCD. Signatories on Training Account would be RM, AB & TF & ARW. At AB’s request, consideration would be made as to whether the running of the Training Account could now be taken over by the Treasurer. Copies of the Mandates would be attached to the signed Record Copy of the accepted Minutes of this Meeting.

INFORMATION

99/06 Current Position

Whilst too early to attempt a proper indication of the year end figures an initial draft of figures on the main account had been prepared. This assumed that Training and C & A were approximately in "balance". The figures indicated a deficit for the year of about £2000, with assets reduced from £10500 at the end of 1997 to £6300 at the end of 1998. The variation between the deficit and the change in balance was a result of outstanding 1997 payments made during 1998.

INFORMATION

9. CONSERVATION OFFICER

99/07 Report

Minutes of the C & A Meeting of 10^th October 1998 had been circulated and next Meeting was taking place concurrent with this Council Meeting. A document had been received and circulated in respect of proposed changes to SSSI legislation and although GP had received limited feedback to this, he had made a detailed response, which would be posted on the NCA Web Site in due course. Progress was now being made on the "Mineshaft" Policy and "Access to Sites with Bats" Policy. One of the initiatives in the Cave Conservation Policy was to produce the Cave Conservation Code as a separate document. It was being considered that a combined leaflet including the Cave Conservation Code and the Minimum Impact Code be published when ready and it was anticipated that printing costs would be £300-500.

INFORMATION

10. TRAINING OFFICER

99/08 Report

Following a series of poorly attended or cancelled meetings, the Training Committee held a meeting on 14^th November at Stafford which was well attended and a large amount of business conducted. As a result of the Devonshire Mine incident, a number of issues related to the AALA had been raised. There was concern that the role of technical advisor was being used by the AALA as a form of "catch-all" within the licensing regulations and that not enough emphasis was placed on the appointment and role of technical experts. In the case of Devonshire Mine it was a question of poor advice being given by the technical advisor but there had been other instances where unqualified technical experts were allowing centres to run trips with unqualified staff. This was clearly unsatisfactory. Similarly, the use of the SPA award in conjunction with LCLMA Level 1 to allow vertical caving, as in the case of Devonshire Mine offers a loophole which is detrimental to both the LCLMA level 2 and safe caving practice. The Training Committee intended to take these issues up with the AALA. With regard to the LCLMA scheme the proposed 1998 workshops had been a disaster, either being cancelled or poorly attended and the Training Committee had requested Tony Flanagan to take a tougher line in 1999. A review of scheme documentation was near completion and progress on sorting candidates and holders data made, although little progress had been made on the proposed computer database. Registrations continue at a steady pace and the new charges have been implemented. The scheme monitoring had not proceeded well mainly due to difficulties with mutually available dates for Paul Ramsden and the assessors in the various regions. It is likely that PR will be requested to prepare a report on monitoring to date and then call a halt to the process. The CIC Panel met in November and reviews of the syllabus and revalidation procedure were underway. Proposals to link with LCLMA and CIC scheme would be presented for discussion in first draft to the LCLMA National Panel in February. A majority of the work noted above had been carried out by the Training Co-ordinator who continued to deal with LCLMA registrations, correspondence, telephone queries etc. It was now over twelve months since TF took up the post and he had a number of concerns. In particular, fitting the workload into the time available and there were a number of projects the Training Committee had discussed which were proceeding slowly due the lack of available time. TF had suggested a review of his responsibilities and AB would be undertaking this shortly. It was felt that setting up the Registration Database on computer might in due course increase efficiency and save time and AB was considering whether it would be appropriate to employ someone to do this. The data source was direct from the Registration Forms and there were approximately 2000 to input.

ACTION – AB TO REPORT ON RESULT OF COMMUNICATION WITH LICENCING AUTHORITY

99/09 Training Co-ordinator E-Mail

Tony Flanagan had continued to have difficulties in getting e-mail working in spite of several attempts and calls to UK Online Technical Support. GP had been able to confirm that there was no problem with the account. It was possible that attempts to re-load the operating system might have caused the problem and it was felt that it might need someone with some technical computer expertise to visit TF. It was indicated that Bob Makin lived close to TF and might be able to help and NW indicated he could contact Bob.

ACTION – NW TO CONTACT BOB MAKIN RE TF E-MAIL

99/10 Adventure Activities Safety Inspection Scheme

ARW advised that with papers received from CCPR there was a leaflet on the Adventure Activities Safety Inspection Scheme – a non-statutory equivalent to Adventure Activities Licensing and published by the AALA. AB had not to date received any information on this. The scheme would run parallel to the statutory scheme and would be targeted at any provider who was not eligible to apply for an Adventure Activities Licence, including voluntary associations and other providers who offer activities for adults. From the limited information available it was not thought to cover or affect caving clubs, but there was a concern over the apparent extension of certification as it might affect caving and it was important to monitor such initiatives carefully to safeguard against certification being a qualification for access. MCD would raise comment on the Scheme at the CCPR Meeting to be held this week. ARW agreed to send a copy of the wording of the leaflet with the Minutes of this Meeting. (Post Meeting Note: the CCPR at its Meeting was positively hostile to implementation of the Scheme)

ACTION – ARW TO FORWARD COPY OF DOCUMENT WITH MINUTES

11. TRAINING CO-ORDINATOR (Not present but matters of import included in Training Officers Report.)

12. EQUIPMENT OFFICER (All matters covered earlier in Meeting)

13. STRUCTURE SPECIAL COMMITTEE CONVENOR (See Item 99/01 (AGM Matters)

14. EDITOR

99/11 Report

SPELEOScene No. 36 had been sent out mid-December. This included Nomination Forms for Officers to be elected at the 1999 AGM. Also included was the revised and reprinted version of the leaflet on NCA subscriptions. Following the last Meeting it had appeared that many of those present were not aware of the production costs of SPELEOScene and in November a "Supplementary Report" was circulated to NCA Council members and constituent body Secretaries giving details of the current situation. With the issues of NO. 36 that were delivered to shops and other outlets was a form requesting confirmation that that shop still wished to take SPELEOScene and to check on number of copies required. This has resulted in a reduction in the print run by 180 copies to 1000. With recent SPELEOScene renewal notices there were a number of appreciative notes. The Editor’s Annual Report refers to the steady increase in subscription numbers. SPELEOScene No. 37 would be issued in January with the AGM Agenda and other official NCA paperwork. Officers Reports etc should go out with No. 38 in March.

GJ queried part of the November "Supplementary Report" which he felt indicated that there was some form of trade off in setting club subscriptions on the basis of reducing constituent body subscription first. GM referred to the Minutes of the Glos. Structure Meeting. Item 4.4 J. Roberts indicated that CB subscription had to be reduced – therefor the concept of lowering CB subscriptions had occurred first. This was followed by a discussion on the need to replace CB subscriptions with club subscriptions. MCD acknowledged that there may be differences in perception as to how the subscriptions were arrived at, noting that some at the Glos. Meeting had attended with the objective of reducing CB subscriptions already in mind, whereas some had not.

INFORMATION

15 INFORMATION & PUBLICATIONS

99/12 Report

With that help of Tony Flanagan and AB, JEP had managed to rationalise the stocks of publications and update the training leaflets. Stock take of Leaflets held by JEP had been passed to ARW.

INFORMATION

16. LEGAL & INSURANCE OFFICER

99/13 Copyright of Cave Survey Data

MCD had written to JD with a query regarding the copyright of cave survey data. It appeared that JD had not received this and MCD & JD would liase after the Meeting to clarify.

ACTION – MCD/JD TO LIAISE REGARDING QUERY

99/14 BCRA Insurance

JEP raised a query regarding the status of Regional Councils under the BCRA/NCA Public Liability Insurance Policy. JEP had understood that officers of the various RC’s had been covered under the Policy, but that now Dave Judson had taken over as BCRA Insurance Officer this was not as certain. It was clear that there were also other issues regarding the Insurance Policy that needed to be resolved (i.e. bolting). NW and JD agreed to take up the various issued involved to clarify matters.

ACTION – NW & JD AS INDICATED

17. RADON WORKING PARTY (Written Report from Clark Friend)

99/1x Report

I have installed 50 of the NRPB radon detectors offered to NCA in OFD this last weekend. They will be removed at the end of December and we should have the results back in mid-late January. I will keep NCA informed of the outcome. About 20 duplicated the Gunn study, which SWCC actually carried out. We have not put any in the Streamway as we need to be able to collect them whatever the weather. There was also an extension down into The Columns and others generally along the Tourist Round Trip in OFD II. Otherwise there were no contacts from outside the organisation since the last meeting.

INFORMATION

18. NATIONAL CAVE REGISTRY CO-ORDINATOR (Not present to report)

19. INTERNATIONAL REPRESENTATIVE (Not present to report)

20. ANY OTHER BUSINESS (There was no other business to report)

21. DATE AND TIME OF NEXT MEETING (Immediately following AGM – Venue – Red Lion, Alvechurch)

The Meeting closed at 3.35 p.m.

Alan Wood: Hon Secretary
30^th January 1999
The next meeting of the National Council will be held on Sat. March 20th 1999 in the Red Lion Inn, Alvechurch

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